Some advice needed please

[CaptainLucky]

Hey thanks Gee
That certainly a detailed explanation thanks mate. This is something I'm going to to have to get better at, until now I've been watering when the top few inches go's dry, and not watering until run off. I was reading somewhere if u wanted till run off in organics u wash out nutrients, but then I guess u replace them when u top dress. So even if its been 9, 10 days and the pot still feels like it has water in it and if plants not wilting still wait. OK cool, going to do this now. Just hoping I havnt done the damage already. What's about putting air stone in the water before watering? Some say do do it, some say no need. What do u do? Thanks in advance..

Do you adjust your water temperature? Water at 68-71 degrees F has 10 times the oxygen molecules then @ 73. Warmer temps also led to root rot and other pathogens. CL

 

[gazmufc]

Do you adjust your water temperature? Water at 68-71 degrees F has 10 times the oxygen molecules then @ 73. Warmer temps also led to root rot and other pathogens. CL

Honestly I don't do anything to the water. My tap water is ridiculously hard. So I'm using RO. It comes out at 7.5, so I use 1 drop of pH down and thats it.

But now that u mentioned it, if I make up 5lt, il leave what I dot use in my bedroom for the next time, it wud be at room temperature then. Roughly 23-25c..humm, thanks for the insight. so from now on il only use it when it comes out of the mains, which should be a little cooler.

What about co2 tabs being up into the water or using air stone to create bubbles? Should I bother? Lol I never would of thought there was as much to getting watering down to a fine art. Just hoping the damage isn't done.

When I do top dress, is there any need to water the amendments in? Let's say I'm due for a top dress, but the pot doesn't need water. Should I wait and top dress when it needs water, try and sync both together?

 

[CaptainLucky]

Honestly I don't do anything to the water. My tap water is ridiculously hard. So I'm using RO. It comes out at 7.5, so I use 1 drop of pH down and thats it.

But now that u mentioned it, if I make up 5lt, il leave what I dot use in my bedroom for the next time, it wud be at room temperature then. Roughly 23-25c..humm, thanks for the insight. so from now on il only use it when it comes out of the mains, which should be a little cooler.

What about co2 tabs being up into the water or using air stone to create bubbles? Should I bother? Lol I never would of thought there was as much to getting watering down to a fine art. Just hoping the damage isn't done.

When I do top dress, is there any need to water the amendments in? Let's say I'm due for a top dress, but the pot doesn't need water. Should I wait and top dress when it needs water, try and sync both together?

If it was me I’d wait until it needed water, I’m of the belief it’s better to under water than over. CL

 

[Gee64]

Hey thanks Gee
That certainly a detailed explanation thanks mate. This is something I'm going to to have to get better at, until now I've been watering when the top few inches go's dry, and not watering until run off. I was reading somewhere if u wanted till run off in organics u wash out nutrients, but then I guess u replace them when u top dress. So even if its been 9, 10 days and the pot still feels like it has water in it and if plants not wilting still wait. OK cool, going to do this now. Just hoping I havnt done the damage already. What's about putting air stone in the water before watering? Some say do do it, some say no need. What do u do? Thanks in advance..

personally I never use air stones unless I am bubbling a tea. I didnt know about water temp but it does make alot of sense. Thanks CL Its really that suction from watering you want as atmospheric air is 78% nitrogen but if water temp can give you more 02 then thats a huge free bonus. I have always left my water in the tent and it warms to about 70 degrees. This is exciting! an added free boost!

 

[Gee64]

@Keffka has a currently still growing grow journal that has 2 videos in it that every organic gardner should watch. One is the cycle of organics and one is purely on soil. The one on soil explains very well why watering to runoff wont wash away your "already fixed for plant consumption " nutes. It took me years to learn on my own what is summarized in those 2 videos. Best 2 organic videos I have ever seen. Its a full and very easy to follow set of videos. The one on soil is a whole year of soil biology dummied down to our level by one of, arguably THEE, best organic grower out there and she makes organics make total sense. Watch them in the order they are presented. His journal is titled

Keffka's Stonington Soil, Bag Seed, 2022 Setup Indoor Grow​

It will set your journy on a really good path.

 

[CaptainLucky]

personally I never use air stones unless I am bubbling a tea. I didnt know about water temp but it does make alot of sense. Thanks CL Its really that suction from watering you want as atmospheric air is 78% nitrogen but if water temp can give you more 02 then thats a huge free bonus. I have always left my water in the tent and it warms to about 70 degrees. This is exciting! an added free boost!

You’d be surprised how many experienced grower’s don’t know about it or if they do they never mention it. CL

 

[CaptainLucky]

@Keffka has a currently still growing grow journal that has 2 videos in it that every organic gardner should watch. One is the cycle of organics and one is purely on soil. The one on soil explains very well why watering to runoff wont wash away your "already fixed for plant consumption " nutes. It took me years to learn on my own what is summarized in those 2 videos. Best 2 organic videos have ever seen. Its a full and very easy to follow set of videos. The one on soil is a whole year of soil biology dummied down to our level by one of, arguably THEE, best organic grower out there and she makes organics make total sense. Watch them in the order they are presented. His journal is titled

Keffka's Stonington Soil, Bag Seed, 2022 Setup Indoor Grow​

It will set your journy on a really good path.

@ InTheShed has the same report, I thought you had to flush to after reading so many experienced members posts doing it. CL

 

[Gee64]

You’d be surprised how many experienced grower’s don’t know about it or if they do they never mention it. CL

I started reading a bit about this and there is literally a lifetime of reading there lol. It sounds like colder water holds more o2 but warmer water makes phosphorus more available, which would actually mimic nature as phosphorus is used far more in the later summer, so I wonder if colder water in veg and warmer water in flower would have a positive effect? Lucky you got any knowledge on this to save an old guy a bunch of reading, or point me down a path?

 

[Azimuth]

That certainly a detailed explanation thanks mate. This is something I'm going to to have to get better at, until now I've been watering when the top few inches go's dry, and not watering until run off. I was reading somewhere if u wanted till run off in organics u wash out nutrients, but then I guess u replace them when u top dress.

That's good advice and will serve you well if you folllow it. Or, you can skip the whole learning curve on proper watering and grow with a SIP (sub irrigated container). There are a few of us rowing with them and the results are amazing. Totally eliminates the over/under watering thing. The pot has a water/air reservoir in the bottom and you literally just add water to it daily to keep it full. No wet/dry cycle in them so makes that part a whole lot easier, especially for new growers, but experienced growers have noted better results as well.

What's about putting air stone in the water before watering?

You'll increase the dissolved oxygen in the water and your plants will love it, but shouldn't be necessary.

When I do top dress, is there any need to water the amendments in? Let's say I'm due for a top dress, but the pot doesn't need water. Should I wait and top dress when it needs water, try and sync both together?

Yes, the top dressed nutes should be wetted to activate them. You could always lightly mist them with a sprayer if the pot is not ready for water yet.

 

[Azimuth]

@Keffka has a currently still growing grow journal that has 2 videos in it that every organic gardner should watch. One is the cycle of organics and one is purely on soil. The one on soil explains very well why watering to runoff wont wash away your "already fixed for plant consumption " nutes. It took me years to learn on my own what is summarized in those 2 videos. Best 2 organic videos I have ever seen. Its a full and very easy to follow set of videos. The one on soil is a whole year of soil biology dummied down to our level by one of, arguably THEE, best organic grower out there and she makes organics make total sense. Watch them in the order they are presented. His journal is titled

Keffka's Stonington Soil, Bag Seed, 2022 Setup Indoor Grow​

It will set your journy on a really good path.

Here's the link to @Keffka 's vidoe thread mentioned in the above post.

 

[CaptainLucky]

I started reading a bit about this and there is literally a lifetime of reading there lol. It sounds like colder water holds more o2 but warmer water makes phosphorus more available, which would actually mimic nature as phosphorus is used far more in the later summer, so I wonder if colder water in veg and warmer water in flower would have a positive effect? Lucky you got any knowledge on this to save an old guy a bunch of reading, or point me down a path?

No sorry I had never read that about ph

I started reading a bit about this and there is literally a lifetime of reading there lol. It sounds like colder water holds more o2 but warmer water makes phosphorus more available, which would actually mimic nature as phosphorus is used far more in the later summer, so I wonder if colder water in veg and warmer water in flower would have a positive effect? Lucky you got any knowledge on this to save an old guy a bunch of reading, or point me down a path?

No I never read that about warmer water and phosphorus the only thing I heard was it lead to pathogens. CL

 

[CaptainLucky]

Oops I accidentally hit reply my first try. CL

 

[gazmufc]

Thanks folks for the wealth of information. When I got home last nte and checked. Nothing seems to be getting worse. Though I'd like to better know if my soil is to moist. It doesn't feel all that wet when I put my finger deep into it. But obviously it cud still be to wet deeper. Was thibkjng of buying this. Surely it wudnt hurt right?

https://www.fruugo.ie/soil-ph-meter-4-in-1-soil-tester-moisture-digital-plant-thermometer-test-moisture-mete/p-76557758-154642742?language=en&ac=croud&gclid=Cj0KCQjwnbmaBhD-ARIsAGTPcfX3fMtk1thbTqn4gICmg4PRB9upxjxXLXobaCelON9Ja3zfunr3gu4aAve1EALw_wcB

 

[gazmufc]

Hey guys
So I've been observing my plants all. Week since we last spoke. Only this morning did the leafs start to drop a little.
It was dry down past 4inch on both of the 10g pots. Decided to water today, so that was a 9day drying out period from my last watering. Mare up 5lt, and tried my best to water equally in 4 quarters.

First quarter I just watered in and around the base of the plant, I waited then for 10m (cud hear that sucking effects as the water went down)

Came back and then gave the bases another quarter. At this stage each plant base had got about 1.5lt!!

I waited then for another 10min and came back and watered the outsides, 1 quarter, waited and then another quarter, Tring to get to a bit of run off. But after doing this for 1. 5lt each, I haven't got to run off yet, and just wondering should I keep going to I get some run off? Once I pull back the soil on the outsides, it's only damp about half inch into the soil and then it's dry again? Just wanna see what yous think before I go back and water more. I want that outside wetter than the root ball, is that correct?

 

[Azimuth]

Yep, 'till run-off. The idea is to fully saturate the soil and then let the plant drink it over the coming days until the pot is light again. You're probably not all that close yet, depending on your mix. I find mine can hold 20-25% of pot volume in water when fully saturated. Next round should shave a day or two off this round's time.

So you're probably looking at a couple of gallons to do the job properly. And to rehydrate dried out media can take a long time because the water wants to just run through the mix in channels rather than spreading out, and that takes time. Some growers use the dunk method by submerging the pot in a slightly larger container that will hold water. Let it sit in there for maybe 5-10 minutes and let it drain.

Just another reason I prefer growing in SIPS. For those, watering the two gallons would take a few seconds. However long it takes to pour the water down the fill tube.

 

[gazmufc]

Yep, 'till run-off. The idea is to fully saturate the soil and then let the plant drink it over the coming days until the pot is light again. You're probably not all that close yet, depending on your mix. I find mine can hold 20-25% of pot volume in water when fully saturated. Next round should shave a day or two off this round's time.

So you're probably looking at a couple of gallons to do the job properly. And to rehydrate dried out media can take a long time because the water wants to just run through the mix in channels rather than spreading out, and that takes time. Some growers use the dunk method by submerging the pot in a slightly larger container that will hold water. Let it sit in there for maybe 5-10 minutes and let it drain.

Just another reason I prefer growing in SIPS. For those, watering the two gallons would take a few seconds. However long it takes to pour the water down the fill tube.

Hello Azimuth

I weren't to far off the mark, it took just over 2g, split between both of them.. The pots are so heavy now compared to before. Still Glad I asked, putting all That water in still feels weired after overwatering. I'd say it will be at least a week now before it gets dried out again. Thanks...

 

[Azimuth]

Now just make sure they are surprisingly light when you lift them before you water again. I'll bet you'll see fewer days in between for this round.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Hmm, if this is supposed to be an organic soil, especially a living organic soil where you are not using bottled nutrients then this should never be allowed to dry out "IMO".
I know basically every person says exactly the opposite but I strongly disagree.
I keep my soil quite moist, I put a thick mulch layer on top to keep it moist even on the surface, my soil is never dry not even the top 1/4".
I have a very good soil tilth, at least 30% of my soil is aeration of pumice, rice hulls and biochar combined with worms and a little cover crop to get roots into the soil all this keeps the soil from getting overly saturated even if I watered the piss out of it.
Even on the bag of your soil is says water a little but often which is what I do.
I go into my grow room about 6x a day and usually add a cup or two of oxygenated water every time.
I always have Yucca Extract in the water which is a wetting agent that helps spread the water to moisten the soil evenly.
I can virtually guarantee that if you're waiting 9 days between waterings then one of two things is true.
1. Your soil is dry as a bone and hydrophobic .
2. If that soil has any moisture after 9 days other than maybe dead center then you don't have enough aeration.

I am in 20 gallon fabric pots with thick mulch on top, no plants in them, no lights on, I am just letting them cook a few weeks to get ready for another grow and I still water them a little every other day to keep a nice moisture level. It keeps the soil alive.
Water is never the problem, its lack of oxygen and if you have proper aeration then you never have lack of oxygen, water has dissolved oxygen in it and is what delivers it to the roots and the nooks and crannies in the pumice and biochar.
I keep my water highly oxygenated with o2 emitters so every time that I pour a cup or two several times a day its a shot of fresh oxygen many times a day.
Water is not the enemy.

 

[gazmufc]

Hmm, if this is supposed to be an organic soil, especially a living organic soil where you are not using bottled nutrients then this should never be allowed to dry out "IMO".
I know basically every person says exactly the opposite but I strongly disagree.
I keep my soil quite moist, I put a thick mulch layer on top to keep it moist even on the surface, my soil is never dry not even the top 1/4".
I have a very good soil tilth, at least 30% of my soil is aeration of pumice, rice hulls and biochar combined with worms and a little cover crop to get roots into the soil all this keeps the soil from getting overly saturated even if I watered the piss out of it.
Even on the bag of your soil is says water a little but often which is what I do.
I go into my grow room about 6x a day and usually add a cup or two of oxygenated water every time.
I always have Yucca Extract in the water which is a wetting agent that helps spread the water to moisten the soil evenly.
I can virtually guarantee that if you're waiting 9 days between waterings then one of two things is true.
1. Your soil is dry as a bone and hydrophobic .
2. If that soil has any moisture after 9 days other than maybe dead center then you don't have enough aeration.

I am in 20 gallon fabric pots with thick mulch on top, no plants in them, no lights on, I am just letting them cook a few weeks to get ready for another grow and I still water them a little every other day to keep a nice moisture level. It keeps the soil alive.
Water is never the problem, its lack of oxygen and if you have proper aeration then you never have lack of oxygen, water has dissolved oxygen in it and is what delivers it to the roots and the nooks and crannies in the pumice and biochar.
I keep my water highly oxygenated with o2 emitters so every time that I pour a cup or two several times a day its a shot of fresh oxygen many times a day.
Water is not the enemy.

Hey thanks for the comment.
Yeah I messed up my cover crop from the get go. Next run il be doing that weeks before I seed up. That will give the surface of the soil more protection.

One thing I noticed about this community, and its a big plus. Most people are respectful to each others methods. I never knew watering was a debated topic, with many having their own ways of doing it. It's all always good to hear of other people's opinions. Many way to shell a pea as the say

The manufacturer of the soil I'm using suggested that bottled nutes shouldn't be needed if u keep up with the fortnightly top dressing with their amendments. So I'm just using comopost teas every 3rd week as extra. Just using worm casting, molasses.

Most were saying that's all u need as base tea for veg, others say u can add to it. Do u make teas for you're 20g pots? I seen a lady adding yuccka extract, and barley to that. What u think?malted Barley for extra feeding to the microorganisms, is that correct?
Do u top dress?

 

[gazmufc]

They defo have responded well to the watering after the dry spell. I certainly notice a wee burst of new growth this last 40hrs or so. And they are perked up a bit more.
Do yas think should I add straw to the top? Or wud chio bark be better?

gave them their top dress as well..2 tbl worm casting per 10g, 2 tbl neem, 2tbl rockdust, 4tbl of incest frass per 10g also, these will take about a week to break down. Hopefully no more stress for them now and can see some constant growth