The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Various. 2 Gallon on day 3 after flip, 3 1L (1. next plant up, 2. old CBD mother destined for the worm bin and 3. its replacement) and 1 2L (old mother trying to revive it)

Thats an excellent spread to watch for.

For the brew, first day is with kelp meal, and molasses I think you said. I have kelp JLF which is already broken down so can I get away with just a 24 hour brew?

I'm not sure as JLF is foreign to me, but if you want to try it I'm game. I don't like to mix experiments but if you have used it without detriment I'm all in. Add what would equal a quarter cup of kelp meal to a 2 gallon tea and then add 2 tablespoons of blackstrap molasses, mix it up good, and add some ewc and brew for 18-24 hours til it gets foamy on top.

Yes, mostly compost with a bit of ALM (Aged Leaf Mold)

Never let this get more than a half inch above crown level, and keep it 1 inch from the stalk.

I do weekly on Saturday's, a combination of 1t/G of a combination of my crumbles (comfrey, nettle, neem, karanja, dried flower and alfalfa) and 2t/G of worm castings. I usually mist them in but now I'll start drenching them in.

No more drenching for now, just gentle watering. On a percentage basis, what size is your res compared to the pot?

I assume the water stick becomes a permanent part of the process? Like you still use it regularly, or just until you get a feel for pot weight?

I use my IR gun and my water stick every day.

I ask because the hydroton in the pots makes it a challenge to insert it (30% hydroton in mix).

If so, I can see the advantage of perlite.



I think we've pretty well determined over-watering/too wet. Nice looking plants without typicall overwater droop, but brix don't lie.

Brix do not lie

My old watering practices were essentially replacing what was consumed over the prior two days. But I think the larger issue was the significant water bank held in the soil and the perched water table which I think can be addressed with a small tweak.

I agree, and it can be.

I have a mix that's been cooking for 6-8 weeks in my current design that I think I'll up end and try the new design to see how it works as we work things out..

Any chance of using the new mix to compare perlite to hydroton in a side by side?

Sounds like a lot more effort than pouring water down the fill tube.

Your worth it

I keep a log for my flowering plants and the one heading to flower, but I can expand that to include the others.

You don't have to, but seeing a trend helps to understand new things. It's data and a visual.

I really appreciate you walking me through this.

Not a problem, I would do it for anyone, but to be fair, you do a lot around here so lets send something back your way.

I really want to see your home grown ingredients in action in an environment that is optimal. If we talk this one out it saves me a lot of typing later. If it gets your system firing better then everyone wins

 

[Gee64]

That sounds like some more bro science. I swear growing/gardening/farming is filled with twice as much voodoo nonsense as it is fact based approaches.

I blame big NPK for a lot of it (not all of it as obviously there are plenty of us who know better). They waged an aggressive campaign to make sure people truly believed their salt based method was the best, and you didn’t need to bother knowing what was actually happening in the dirt because you’re growing big plants. Humans eat that crap up. No need to understand what or why, or even how, as long as it’s as easy as following an instruction label

It's a hard model to compete with, convenience sells.

 

[Azimuth]

Any chance of using the new mix to compare perlite to hydroton in a side by side?

Probably not, at least for a while. And if I were to do a side-by-side I'd want to test SIP designs against each other first. (see below)

On a percentage basis, what size is your res compared to the pot?

1L out of 8 or 12.5%, plus whatever's in the surrounding soil.

But I don't think that's the right primary metric. I don't hardly ever max out the reservoir.

The better metric imo, is the volume of waterlogged soil, or maybe even better the surface area of the perched water table. THAT'S the change I'm making for next round.

Leaving aside the automatic fill set-ups and other more exotic reservoir versions, there are two primary ways growers build the water reservoir/air chamber.

The first is a soil footer in the middle surrounded by water and the second is the inverse, the doughnut model. Think Krispy Kreme right out of the oven. Mmmmmm. In this model there is soil around the outside and reservoir in the middle.

My first SIPs were the first type and is the build featured in the video in the design post on page 2 of the SIP Club thread. At that point I was of the assumption that more soil in contact with more water could only be beneficial so I increased the size of the footer to 16 oz.

And then, as the thread started rolling and we saw some of the commercial versions being used I figured I could increase my footer area by using a 1L container for the reservoir in the middle and having the soil wick surrounding a dome which made up the resevoir.

Mission accomplished though I'm now thinking this is responsible for my overly wet soil, so I'm going back to the first design but shrinking the footer to a 3" net up (about 4 oz vs 16 in my first version and probably at least triple that in my current version.

I'll keep the reservoir mostly empty at first but, if I can get brix up, I want to see if it will stay up with an active reservoir.

I think the narrower, smaller footer may just give me the best of both worlds. At least that's the dream.

 

[Gee64]

1L out of 8 or 12.5%, plus whatever's in the surrounding soil.

When I water by hand on a plant that is rooted into a pot properly, I water about 12.5% of the pot size. Your reservoir holds pretty much the perfect amount that the plant needs every watering.

Well done.

The problem is definitely as you said, the added water in the soil becomes excessively wet.

12.5%, this is going to be easy Azi.

So if you let the reservoir run dry, and when the stick says it's time to water, you fill the dry res full, 12.5%. If it overflows a bit stop, let it absorb for a minute or 2, and then get the rest of the 12.5% into the reservoir.

It should work really well, and every 3rd watering pour your 12.5% in from the top, I bet everything would perk up immensly.

Do 1 top watering 1st, then when the stick says so, do your bottom watering.

If brix doesn't rise enough, then go 2 tops, 1 bottom.

Having your reservoir at that size actually makes really good mathematical sense.

It's still sipping, but you control the moisture so the threat of a stall may be eliminated, and calcium will still cycle.

Want to try that? Now that all your soil is wet I bet it would work really well.

When the stick says it's time to water at 2/3 of the pot depth, you add your 12.5%.

Still check 5 points to ensure even moisture, and if it gets wonky again, you know how to fix it, but it should be good now for at least a couple weeks.

Check every day tho, the faster you learn this the quicker you can get back to building your end game. What you will find is that the dryout times will get shorter until stretch is finished, then consumption drops and steadies. Flower becomes consistent until senescence or droughting or however you want to finish.

Once you figure a flow rate then you can make the top/bottom thing tie into feeding schedules.

Then start tweaking to find the bottom watering to top watering cycle. It may be that you only need to top water every 4th or 5th or 6th time. Then your off and running. Follow the brix.

Every time a change increases brix you know it added photosynthesis. Pretty soon you will find a nice easy rhythm that sits above 15 brix so a storm won't take you as low as bugs need. You don't want to hit 12.

12.5%, dude thats perfect. Good math.

In those small pots you will get to see how your potions affect brix. When you get the air to water ratio right things happen quick. Start formulating a plan on how you would alleviate a Calcium def, and how you would feed a hungry plant. When they get brix up they grow fast.

I wouldn't waste brain space on a pot restructure quite yet, your reservoir is the right size. When brix hits the wall, then consider changing your proportions and such.

You won't have a perched water table within 8 hours of watering so as long as dry spots don't happen, your build is fine.

Then if it drinks say 1 litre every 4 days and you would rather add a quarter litre every day to the reservoir, it will work fine, just follow the water stick to guard against over wetness.

 

[Azimuth]

I got a pretty even 7ish about 2" down across the larger pot so looks like no dry spots. Wetter lower obviously and wetter in the smaller containers. Maybe I'm closer than I think.

 

[Gee64]

RVDV - 28 Days in soil.

#1 is ready to flower and has great shape to it. It's the 2nd best one.

#2 is the 3rd best one, it's shape isn't ideal but still good. It's the 3rd best one.

#3 is the best one. It's the most vigorous and has the best shape to it. Pretty much perfect, and ready to flower.

#4 is the least vigorous and has the poorest shape, but is still a great plant.

Day 49 of 60.

The poor tortured Gals. I want to give them some EWC and fish ferts and an uppotting so bad. I don't know if they have 11 days left in them.

Iklwa still isn't showing hunger, just a calcium issue, but dolomite watering has seemed to stop it. Her stamens are still nice and white and her buds are stacking nicely. She will be nuggy if progress continues.

RVDV not so much. Her woes seem to be slowing but her buds are not going to have good weight. Damage done is damage done. She can't photosynthesize optimally anymore.

So here is what I am thinking. The clones came from this plant and are in fine shape and in soil that has twice the nutes and triple the calcium, so if I cull this one, I can replace it with clones 1 and 3.

2 will become a mother plant and get pruned into shape and held in the veg tent and uppotted.

4 will either go outside in the small pot to see how far the pot can go, or head to Wormville. Probably outside to see how big this mix will grow a plant.

My other option is to keep RV1 and miss the window for flower on the clones.

I have tons of jarred weed so no worries there. I can wait for 10 more weeks with the clones.

I think it's time to say good-bye to RV1.

If I were to cull her I would have to flower the clones in 1.66gal pots, as the time it would take to have an uppotting root in would make these clones too big, and the cycle will repeat.

So I'm leaning heavily towards culling her and then because of the small pots, leaving the clones branches on, but removing all bud sites except for the ones on the 4 apex colas.

I will leave all the leaves on the lower branches to keep overall photosynthesis high, but only allow 4 colas to flower to conserve the limited nutrition in the small pots.

RV1 will never produce quality buds now, but number 1 and 3 could, and I would like to test the Gaia Green 2.0 mix further.

Ikky is fine, and I don't want to cull Mutey even tho she won't produce much at all. She's fun to watch.

Then in 2 weeks I can pop seeds for the next run and veg them for 8 weeks while the clones flower out.

Today is top dress day so by this afternoon I need to decide.

What do you all think?

 

[Gee64]

I got a pretty even 7ish about 2" down across the larger pot so looks like no dry spots. Wetter lower obviously and wetter in the smaller containers. Maybe I'm closer than I think.

You are close. I would follow the stick. Then follow the brix.

If your "perched" water table is higher than the top of your air dome, the soil is too wet to let adequate air in to the microbes, so you need to lower it from soggy to steamy. Then we can really and honestly see how your mix performs.

Formulate a feeding plan, you are going to need it. Feed for flower, you need dump trucks.

 

[Gee64]

Get lost spammer. You have been reported. Please no one like or comment on the spam post. Feel free to report it as spam.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Gee Man, the culling sounds to me the most sensible option...

 

[013]

Reported that douche wagon…

Nothing like the smell of early morning spam sizzling on your router…

 

[Azimuth]

When the stick says it's time to water at 2/3 of the pot depth, you add your 12.5%.

Which is 4-5 on the stick 2/3rds down?

 

[Gee64]

Which is 4-5 on the stick 2/3rds down?

You bet. Then make a note after watering of how long it takes to go from too wet to back into the green zone. If your 12.5% on a top watering puts some water into the res, leave it there.

 

[Gee64]

Reported that douche wagon…

Nothing like the smell of early morning spam sizzling on your router…

 

[Gee64]

Gee Man, the culling sounds to me the most sensible option...

I agree.

 

[013]

can’t find emoji but fist bump right back atcha!

 

[Lerugged]

Can't you pop her outside and see if anything happens? Then you have some space. I feel you, she probably won't produce great flower but, you never know. Otherwise cull her and flower her clones

 

[Azimuth]

My other option is to keep RV1 and miss the window for flower on the clones.

So I'm leaning heavily towards culling her and then because of the small pots, leaving the clones branches on, but removing all bud sites except for the ones on the 4 apex colas.

That's the beauty of clones. Once you know you have issues in the prior round... NEXT! Move on with better looking plants. I usually root more than I'm going to need and then select the best one or two to pot up. And there's allways one or two that are clearly superior to the others. Best one of those two at the next round of potting time gets the nod to flower. Like my own personal bullpen.

Darwinism baby, select the best adapted plant to propagate the species.

The poor tortured Gals. I want to give them some EWC and fish ferts and an uppotting so bad. I don't know if they have 11 days left in them.
-
Maybe give them just a little taste to help them through?

I wouldn't waste brain space on a pot restructure quite yet, your reservoir is the right size.

WTF??!?!? What fun is that?

Plus the build is mostly done. I got a little excited about the concept that I couldn't help myself and dove right in. Just have to cut the modded up insert to fit and it's ready to go!

I actually think it will give me a larger margin for error and that's something I want to test. With the moisture meter that should be easy to do.

I think it will change the SIP dynamics a bit from the other design in a very favorable way for small containers. For larger ones it probably doesn't much matter, but with smaller, and shorter, containers I need all the advantages I can get.

Smaller pots certainly introduce issues that larger pots just don't seem to have.

If your "perched" water table is higher than the top of your air dome, the soil is too wet to let adequate air in to the microbes, so you need to lower it from soggy to steamy. Then we can really and honestly see how your mix performs.

It's probably at least close and likely over, and that's one of the things I think the other design will help address. Plus the footer should work to drain any excess water from the main soil chamber so I suspect it'll be better all around.

Not as many roots will have access to the reservoir though, and it'll be interesting to see if I get a different mix of roots with it. Right now I get only the very fine feeder roots but I've seen other types from other SIPPERs.

We've had questions on why some get one type of root while others get something else so this may help answer that question as well.

Formulate a feeding plan, you are going to need it. Feed for flower, you need dump trucks.

That's going to take a few cycles to work out I suspect, especially with going back to my crumbles. But I still have the JLF nutes ready as necessary. It's hard to tell if they're doing the job given my soggy soil.

Should know in a few weeks though.

 

[Gee64]

The poor tortured Gals. I want to give them some EWC and fish ferts and an uppotting so bad. I don't know if they have 11 days left in them.
-
Maybe give them just a little taste to help them through?

Nah, sink or swim Girls. Programming (?) almost complete.

 

[Gee64]

Can't you pop her outside and see if anything happens? Then you have some space. I feel you, she probably won't produce great flower but, you never know. Otherwise cull her and flower her clones

The days are over 14 hours and growing, it would be a reveg. I'd rather not tbh. She gave us beautiful kids after a hard life, I think she's gonna go.

 

[Gee64]

The days are over 14 hours and growing, it would be a reveg. I'd rather not tbh. She gave us beautiful kids after a hard life, I think she's gonna go.

I don't think the worms will get my favorite cola tho