1gal organic grow with worm tea & KNF inputs only?

[Azimuth]

I got the idea after reading that thread somewhere on this message board which was started by someone with a 'hempy' style of growing in hydro set-up. I figure that soil is more forgiving and easier in the long run.

My way of thinking was to mix up the soil and add some amendments and start with that. Sounds like you might be considering doing something like that and then supplementing when needed with teas and maybe top dressing??

Well, more like trying to supply all the nutes needed through KNF drenches and foliars.

I will say, however, that there is a big caution not to use the fish juice in flower because of the high levels of nitrogen it contains.

So, looks like a hybrid approach is needed at the very least.

Maybe something like @StoneOtter did and use the dry supplemental nutes in flower.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Guanos are a good choice for top dress when the plant is entering flower. It is a quick release amendment and brings a new set of microbes.

 

[Azimuth]

One of the benefits of the ferments is that they pull the minerals and others nutrients from the plant in the general percentage that they are found in the plant. It is suggested that one use a plant that is the closest match to the target plant as possible.

Since they are so easy and quick to make, I'm going to make individual extracts for each strain since different strains prefer slightly different combinations of nutrients. Some might want more or less of a specific combination and the ferment from the leaves of a healthy specimen of that strain should have the best mix of what it prefers.

 

[Pat Puffer]

We grow a weed. From what I have read, using regular fast growing weeds around your house is a good start.

I have already scoped and done my "recon" to spot my "weeds" i will be using. As soon as I get home, sleep and wake up before the sun hits and yanky yanky.

 

[Azimuth]

We grow a weed. From what I have read, using regular fast growing weeds around your house is a good start.

I have already scoped and done my "recon" to spot my "weeds" i will be using. As soon as I get home, sleep and wake up before the sun hits and yanky yanky.

Yes, they have the good growth hormones. And for things like grape shoots it's best to use the very tip ends which is where more of those hormones are concentrated.

As for the more common yard weeds, dandelion, comfrey and stinging nettle seem to be among the best due to their long tap root that mines the minerals deep in the soil below levels many other weeds can reach.

Also, carrot tops score pretty highly.

 

[SmokingWings]

We grow a weed. From what I have read, using regular fast growing weeds around your house is a good start.

I have already scoped and done my "recon" to spot my "weeds" i will be using. As soon as I get home, sleep and wake up before the sun hits and yanky yanky.

I have garden beds, flower beds, shrubs beds and vegetable gardens in my back yard. This summer you are more than welcome to come over and pull all the weeds. You can keep them all or just select for the ones you want.

 

[Sharper]

I'm looking to do an all organic grow and am limited to 1 gal pots as I grow in a cabinet with a small and defined footprint. Several of the super soil-type, water only growers have commented that 1 gal pots won't have enough nutrients in the volume to make it to end of flower.

I don't mind adding some nutes along the way, and wondered if anyone has had experience (and success) using small pots with just adding worm tea and the fermented plant juices of KNF (Korean Natural Farming) in place of all the other amendments usually added to the base mix.

My base mix is 11 Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss, Perlite, Compost (1/3 each worm castings/biochar, compost, and 2 yr old leaf mold).

Azi

I have space for larger pots 2.5 gallon. and started to do layers and spikes but started to get behind on materials so I wanted to try a experiment with some in 1 gallon and some in 2.5 gallon pots . I didnt layer in 1 gal. But did in 2.5 gal. With added spikes. Teas were applied along the way veg. Tea to grow and flower and finish tea followed by water only . This all was done with worms , compost mix from book and layers and spikes no additional added nutrients. 95% positive if you veg in smaller pot then layer and spikes in 1 gal .you will do fine. You end up with smaller plant less flowers if not 3ft. Tall from veg . I had best success with large pot / with trellises and tied down tall flowers was greater versus sm pot no trellises . I lifted short ones and tied open to trellis to maximum interior. Yeaild is mostly the factor if layering and spike fed. Bigger pots bigger everything. The mix of compost is key . Get true living organics book ..... it has everything you want to know . Plus some . Also they suggested 400w. Only
I used 600w all I had , I just lifted it higher. Organic dont need high wattage lights

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks, Sharper.

I did get the TLO book and am on my second read thru. I've decided to try that way and see how I do. Its a proven approach with some great results. Once I see what my results are, I'll compare them to a KNF grow and compare the two.

I just don't have any experience to know whether supplying the nutes on a regular basis through the fermented plant and fish juices will be a sufficient replacement (or could even be too much) for the organic add-ons to the super soils since a small pot apparently won't hold enough to go all the way thru to harvest.

I'd guess it would be similar to the additional spikes and top dressing that you cite, but at least that way is proven with definitive amounts and schedules, where my thoughts on using KNF would be an interesting experiment but probably not a great plan for the initial go round.

 

[Diatomacious]

I don't think the nutrients will be a problem as you can easily push NPK as high as you want (ppm wise) with either chemical or organic. The problem with 1 gallon pots is you can only grow small plants in them (I read somewhere about 1 ft of plant per 1 gallon of soil). You just want to bud them as soon as they root to keep them small enough they don't outgrow the small containers. You want them about a foot tall at harvest for such a small pot... I've gotten 1 oz from a 2 gallon pot before... never tried flower in a 1 gallon though.

 

[Sharper]

Thanks, Sharper.

I did get the TLO book and am on my second read thru. I've decided to try that way and see how I do. Its a proven approach with some great results. Once I see what my results are, I'll compare them to a KNF grow and compare the two.

I just don't have any experience to know whether supplying the nutes on a regular basis through the fermented plant and fish juices will be a sufficient replacement (or could even be too much) for the organic add-ons to the super soils since a small pot apparently won't hold enough to go all the way thru to harvest.

I'd guess it would be similar to the additional spikes and top dressing that you cite, but at least that way is proven with definitive amounts and schedules, where my thoughts on using KNF would be an interesting experiment but probably not a great plan for the initial

I don't think the nutrients will be a problem as you can easily push NPK as high as you want (ppm wise) with either chemical or organic. The problem with 1 gallon pots is you can only grow small plants in them (I read somewhere about 1 ft of plant per 1 gallon of soil). You just want to bud them as soon as they root to keep them small enough they don't outgrow the small containers. You want them about a foot tall at harvest for such a small pot... I've gotten 1 oz from a 2 gallon pot before... never tried flower in a 1 gallon though.

I didn't get crazy with nutrients in grow but I did in veg . I veg. In l gal . To 2ft. To 3 ft . tall. I used nutrients to fix deficiency in plants only.I also cloned more than once to keep to size and add growth to bottom limbs. If you add anything do in moderation. Gove 2 weeks for effects .

 

[Sharper]

Well, more like trying to supply all the nutes needed through KNF drenches and foliars.

I will say, however, that there is a big caution not to use the fish juice in flower because of the high levels of nitrogen it contains.

So, looks like a hybrid approach is needed at the very least.

Maybe something like @StoneOtter did and use the dry supplemental nutes in flower.

Theres alot of nitrogen In the soil in different forms all a bit different in values. Plants like a lot of nitrogen just not too much . Everything in moderation adjust as you go .

 

[Azimuth]

Yeah, I'm coming to the conclusion that the different amendments have varying release times so there is usually something available to the plant for whatever it needs and the foliar and drenches of KNF might be more a case of instantly available and then nothing later.

Since I don't have the knowledge yet of what is needed when, sticking with a proven formula probably makes the most sense.

 

[Diatomacious]

Theres alot of nitrogen In the soil in different forms all a bit different in values. Plants like a lot of nitrogen just not too much . Everything in moderation adjust as you go .

I think what he means is the fish is OK just use less of it than you would the lower nitrogen value amendments.

If fish has 836 ppm P and dandelion has 128 then 1 mg of fish is equal to 6.53 mg of dandelion for phosphorous. You have to balance each and every element of course which makes organics so much fun

 

[Azimuth]

Right, but there remains the question of how many ppm's exactly does the plant want/need at any given point in its growth cycle in the first place, and is steady, slower release but always available, better than instant release all at one time but more periodic?

Also, the Rev states that any change you make today starts showing up in the plants in 10-15 days so, I'd have to anticipate the right amount ten days from now and I don't have the experience yet to be anywhere close to being able to make that determination.

I was hoping someone on here already knew whether or not a steady diet of KNF juices would work as an alternative to the "just add water" approach and, if they would, what would be an appropriate timing and dosing regime.

Our start to end cycle is much shorter than say, growing apples, so the timing is more critical.

And now I'm talking my way into simply following the well worn path of TLO, rather than blazing a trail.

Will still be a fun experiment at some future date, but probably not a great strategy this early on in my growing career.

 

[Diatomacious]

Right, but there remains the question of how many ppm's exactly does the plant want/need at any given point in its growth cycle in the first place

That's what separates the pros from the amateurs.

I was hoping someone on here already knew whether or not a steady diet of KNF juices would work as an alternative to the "just add water" approach and, if they would, what would be an appropriate timing and dosing regime.

It's my understanding of KNF that it's home made... is this correct? If so it will depend on what you made the KNF from and it's chemical composition (percents of elemental nutrients) in order to better understand a dosage regimen (you're getting into agricultural department testing at that point). Your potting mix looks to me like it will probably need additional nutrients (supplied by the KNF) in order to have a good harvest. I would say one good dose and wait 2 weeks to see what happens. Nutrients tend to stick in the soil with organics so be very moderate with adding additional fertilizations as they can add to what's already in the soil and become too much.

 

[Azimuth]

Yes, the nutrients are homemade by fermenting various things, plants mostly, generally using brown sugar, vinegar, or water and then applying via foliar sprays or soil drenches, and then allowing soil and airborne microbes to use them to help the plant.

So, yes the added nutrients will help the plant but since there are too many variables starting with what was the nutrient profile of the plant used to make the ferment in the first place, to what will the target plant need in ten days at the then growing conditions, and couple that with my limited skill set, I've decided to follow a more "tried and true" approach.

Will probably start off with a "Coot's style" mix and migrate to the TLO approach as I get more experience.

 

[Sharper]

Yes, the nutrients are homemade by fermenting various things, plants mostly, generally using brown sugar, vinegar, or water and then applying via foliar sprays or soil drenches, and then allowing soil and airborne microbes to use them to help the plant.

So, yes the added nutrients will help the plant but since there are too many variables starting with what was the nutrient profile of the plant used to make the ferment in the first place, to what will the target plant need in ten days at the then growing conditions, and couple that with my limited skill set, I've decided to follow a more "tried and true" approach.

Will probably start off with a "Coot's style" mix and migrate to the TLO approach as I get more experience.

Try anything in small amounts to see if it's a good step . Plants are durable but not if saturated. Test on one of your 4and have experienced take to next grow

 

[Diatomacious]

Will probably start off with a "Coot's style" mix and migrate to the TLO approach as I get more experience.

Only thing I would recommend is the addition of Azomite or Greensand to your original soil mix to add some micro-nutrients. Peat moss has very little micros in it unlike soil (real dirt) which is made up of crushed rock containing lots of micro nutrients. You could also just add some real dirt from out of the yard as well.

 

[Azimuth]

I've read that leaf mold is a good substitute for the peat moss, but I would suspect that would change the pH of the mix and then affect the ratios you need of other things like the oyster flour which helps bring the pH up from what I understand. So, changes to anything in the proven mix shiould be done with a pretty good understanding of what the effects will be.

As for dirt from the garden, I agree that it would be beneficial, but am hesitant to bring in any more creepy crawlies than I'm already introducing via my compost and vermicompost. I think I may be able to get some granite dust locally, but the Azomite might be a good alternative if I can't.

 

[StoneOtter]

We grow a weed. From what I have read, using regular fast growing weeds around your house is a good start.

I have already scoped and done my "recon" to spot my "weeds" i will be using. As soon as I get home, sleep and wake up before the sun hits and yanky yanky.

I have skunk cabbage in my yard that grows like crazy vegging its leaves. Inches a day! Was considering that for a veg extraction.