Living soils

BarnacleBill

Well-Known Member
Hello family, it's been awhile since I came out from under the warf for a discussion. But hey, I'm still bobbing around wich is a good thing. So here we go.
Back in the early 1980's when I first started growing, today's tech and science was nonexistent. The concept of hydroponics was in it's infancy and we'll out of the reach of the average grower. We used known practices that were from the agriculture industry and if it worked for them we followed suit. I thought we we hightech using an old sewage pump truck to suck the muck up out of the slop pond at the end of the dairy barn to flood our grow field... Hey, what did we know other than it really increased our yeild dramatically! Over the years we adopted other practices and that was the introduction of various fertilizers and chemically enhanced ferts and neuts. I mean hey, it was a hell of a lot easier filling a sprayer than sucking up cow waste from a pond, not to mention moving it! In a nutshell, hell yeah, I got lazy!
Now that I'm on the doorstep of pushing the big "six-0" with more medical issues than I care to admit too, I am seriously concerned about what goes into my body. Between the amounts of recreational drugs I've consumed and the medications that I've ingested and the radiation I've been exposed to this old ship feels dry rot from bow to stern. It not the matter of the quantity of my life anymore but more so the quality of it. The same holds true to my grows. Okay let me rephrase that, quantity is STILL important if it's QUALITY...
After years (who am I kidding, decades!) of being a mindless Monsanto soldier fostering a scorched earth philosophy in the pursuit of capital gains, life has slowed to a more natural pace and my waypoints are much more attainable. I am finally committed to weening myself off the teat of the Monsanto monster and moving back to harmony and a natural relationship with what I grow.
... and as usual I have lost my course, my apologies. Who wants to listen to an old scallywag who's ship has sailed without him. Let's turn to port, lash down the cleats and see what's in the hold. Enough sea chanteys for now...
Recently I have been looking into several living soil programs for my next grow and feel like I have settled on one in particular. I am wondering if any of you mates have used this particular one. I confess that this is not my program but have pirated it from growingyourgreens.com who in turn has done the same from a source aka Master Mark (I really would like to know that particular captain!). Here is their manifest:
They are starting with Fox Farm "Ocean and Forest" as a base wich they modify from there. Now I must say that they recommend starting seedlings in "Happy Frog" and graduate it from there up to the "Ocean and Forest" mix. Since I mostly grow auto strains in a closet tent since loosing the farm and their extremely fast growth rate, I intend on starting with the modified "Ocean and Forest" from step one.
To the "Ocean and Forest" they are adding 20% of the volume of the initial amount of soil the following additives. If your starting with let's say 10 gallons of dry soil, after the additives you should have 16 gallons of soil because you added 20% of each additive. Make sense?
1) An all natural Biochar. In essence this is a mixture of finally ground natural charcoal. This is commercially available from several companies such as Organic Solutions among others. Some companies add additional supplements such as rock dust wich also helps create a microbial foundation.
2) A single hydroponic substrate. Now you ask "Why that? I'm growing in soil, not hydroponics." Well we need a home for the microbial bacteria to live and this is our source. The beneficial bacteria will adhere and reproduce on these pieces of substrate. They recommend using "Hydrocorn" due to the irregular surface area. It's like having a fish tank, when you initially start the tank it will cloud. Once you have an established bacteria colony in your filter, the bacteria will actually assist in the filtration process. In our case, the bacteria will help assist in breaking down the nutrients making them available to the plant as well as eliminating harmful bacteria.
3) Additional work castings. Ya gotta love worm poo! There is (In my opinion) no better soil additive than worm poo!
To this they additionally add:
1 to 2 cups of a Neem Seed Meal such as "Down to Earth" brand wich is a slow release nitrogen fert with a quantitative analysis of 6-1-2.
1 to 2 cups of kelp meal such as the "Grow More" brand.
What I find interesting is the fact that this soil ( if maintained properly through periodic topdressing, tea baths, organic cane sugars and a soluble kelp extract ) is supposedly reusable! This is awesome! They allege that the yields have actually improved through as many as five cycles after the initial planting.
On my next cycle I will be using this formula and will be doing an accompanying grow journal. I will cover feeding cycles at that time. I would greatly appreciate everyone's input on this thread if this is your sort of thing. I am especially interested in those that are following this program.
I appreciate you taking the time to read this, I realize it is long in the line . High tides and green fields to everyone!
 
Personally I would suggest just going with a Buildasoil version of the Clackamas Coots soil recipe.
Their V3 soil is what I am using currently.
Then fill up 20+ gallon fabric pots.
Start a cover crop, add a barley straw mulch layer.
Inoculate with mycorrhazae.
Then add worms and rover beetles.
Keep the soil moist at all times never let it dry out.
And you're good to go
 
Personally I would suggest just going with a Buildasoil version of the Clackamas Coots soil recipe.
Their V3 soil is what I am using currently.
Then fill up 20+ gallon fabric pots.
Start a cover crop, add a barley straw mulch layer.
Inoculate with mycorrhazae.
Then add worms and rover beetles.
Keep the soil moist at all times never let it dry out.
And you're good to go
Thank you for the advice, I will definitely look into that before I commit to my grow. I am very concerned about adding beetles since my tent is in my bedroom...lol
 
Welcome to organic growing! I made the move several years ago and have never looked back, even though I have checked out several methods of producing these organic gardens.

My first organic soil was called the SubCool's Supersoil mix and it was similar, but much more extensive in the amount of goodies thrown in, using FoxFarm Ocean Forest as a base soil to make the mix. Don't forget that there is a necessary cooking time (composting) to get that soil to be able to store the nutrients needed for the grow, in a usable form. There are also several methods available to you these days in order to get the microbes coming into your garden on a regular basis.

Whatever soil and method you end up with, you are going to enjoy organic gardening. My original 50 gallons of SubCool super soil is still being used as part of my base mix, but was effectively used as a supersoil, over and over again, for a little over 6 years before I felt a need to bring in some fresh soil at the beginning of this year. The best thing about organic soil is you can throw everything not used, branches, trim, etc. right back into the compost bin to turn it back into soil. Nothing is wasted in organic growing!

Good luck, and I look forward to seeing your journal!
 
Welcome to organic growing! I made the move several years ago and have never looked back, even though I have checked out several methods of producing these organic gardens.

My first organic soil was called the SubCool's Supersoil mix and it was similar, but much more extensive in the amount of goodies thrown in, using FoxFarm Ocean Forest as a base soil to make the mix. Don't forget that there is a necessary cooking time (composting) to get that soil to be able to store the nutrients needed for the grow, in a usable form. There are also several methods available to you these days in order to get the microbes coming into your garden on a regular basis.

Whatever soil and method you end up with, you are going to enjoy organic gardening. My original 50 gallons of SubCool super soil is still being used as part of my base mix, but was effectively used as a supersoil, over and over again, for a little over 6 years before I felt a need to bring in some fresh soil at the beginning of this year. The best thing about organic soil is you can throw everything not used, branches, trim, etc. right back into the compost bin to turn it back into soil. Nothing is wasted in organic growing!

Good luck, and I look forward to seeing your journal!
Thank you very much for your input. Yeah, nothing should go to waste and I will be composted in my bins. I'm running a combined grow atm, part organic some ferts that are definitely not organic. I just feel it's not healthy or would be more healthy if I go all organic. You got six years out of your original mix? Wow! That's what I'm talking about...lol! A true living soil as nature intended! Thanks again!
 
Personally I would suggest just going with a Buildasoil version of the Clackamas Coots soil recipe.
Their V3 soil is what I am using currently.
Then fill up 20+ gallon fabric pots.
Start a cover crop, add a barley straw mulch layer.
Inoculate with mycorrhazae.
Then add worms and rover beetles.
Keep the soil moist at all times never let it dry out.
And you're good to go
Just want to say thanks again, just finished watching a couple videos on the mix. Very good stuff!
 
I just bought the True Living Organics 2nd edition. The Rev

I would like to give this a go, either later this year or next.

Got to suck up the knowledge in the book first.

Stay safe, and grow well my friend,

Tok..
Very cool, let me know how it works for you. Maybe we can compare grows. I'm about 60-90 days out on my current grow. I'm looking somewhere around August at this point for trying a living soil mix.
 
I use Fox Farms Ocean Forest and add roughly 25-30% more perlite and the mix is absolutely amazing in my opinion. I did not have to add nutrients at all for roughly 2.5 to 3 weeks so keep that in mind before getting excited to add your first nutrients! I’m very excited to follow your progress and love your intentions with the plant. Good luck and welcome back to the greatest group of minds in the community!
 
I use Fox Farms Ocean Forest and add roughly 25-30% more perlite and the mix is absolutely amazing in my opinion. I did not have to add nutrients at all for roughly 2.5 to 3 weeks so keep that in mind before getting excited to add your first nutrients! I’m very excited to follow your progress and love your intentions with the plant. Good luck and welcome back to the greatest group of minds in the community!
Yes, Ocean Forest is great stuff. I've been using it for several years now. Just trying to get off the General Hydroponics end of it. I've also been following their program and getting good results. I just feel I can still get good yields and possibly better flavors of I go to a living soil. Still aiming to start my grow around August. Looks like I'm going to run Tangie'matic this cycle. I have some seeds I need to use up. It's a solid strain that I've had good results with in the past.
 
I have been using the happy frog for three years. I recycled my soul for my greenhouse but use new soil for indoor. I'm using mega crop for indoor nutrients but want to use compost teas for my outside grow which is a pineapple thai strain.
I'm also going to try bumping my Dancehall strain seedlings up to clean forest when reporting. They are currently sixty days into veg.
I'm going to need advice on the outside grow since I'm trying the organic route.
I have a worm farm also and lots of rabbit poo.
Can I put a red wiggler in each outside plants soil?
 
I have a worm farm also and lots of rabbit poo.
Can I put a red wiggler in each outside plants soil?
I have worms in my outdoor containers (7gal & 13gal). I usually have a mulch layer on top that when it's peeled back loads of worms can be seen.
 
I have 5 gal pots of FFOF, can I seriously put some of my reds in it? Indoor tent
Odds are they will bail out on you.
They need a hospitable environment or they'll crawl right out of the pot.
If you use bottled nutrients they don't like that.
They also need either a cover crop or thick mulch.
Hard to get a small pot hospitable for worms unless its 100% organic, no synthetic nutrients and has a thick mulch layer which is basically not really workable in such a small pot.
You can toss a couple in there and see what happens but my guess is you will have two dried up dead worms on the floor by the next day.
 
Odds are they will bail out on you.
They need a hospitable environment or they'll crawl right out of the pot.
If you use bottled nutrients they don't like that.
They also need either a cover crop or thick mulch.
Hard to get a small pot hospitable for worms unless its 100% organic, no synthetic nutrients and has a thick mulch layer which is basically not really workable in such a small pot.
You can toss a couple in there and see what happens but my guess is you will have two dried up dead worms on the floor by the next day.
I was thinking along those lines but I had to ask. I would love to go full organic, well I basically have but more like @NuttyProfessor and his ingenious ways. Only thing holding me back is legality obviously LOL.
 
@BarnacleBill i just finished mixing my own soil with Clackamas Coots / Build A Soil recipe. I just put three plants in 3 20gal pots, added worms, nematodes and some straw mulch. Yesterday planted red clover for cover crop we’ll see how it goes, so far so good!
98BB8292-1492-4D24-9CC1-AA97457A338F.jpeg


I enjoyed mixing it myself and learning about the amendments, plus I have lots of leftover for making custom top dresses and teas now but it was a fair bit of work sourcing them all and then mixing. If you are looking to phase out the harder work and have access to it build a soil or black swallow are good choices.
 
@BarnacleBill i just finished mixing my own soil with Clackamas Coots / Build A Soil recipe. I just put three plants in 3 20gal pots, added worms, nematodes and some straw mulch. Yesterday planted red clover for cover crop we’ll see how it goes, so far so good!
98BB8292-1492-4D24-9CC1-AA97457A338F.jpeg


I enjoyed mixing it myself and learning about the amendments, plus I have lots of leftover for making custom top dresses and teas now but it was a fair bit of work sourcing them all and then mixing. If you are looking to phase out the harder work and have access to it build a soil or black swallow are good choices.
Looks awesome, keep me posted. I interested in watching. Are you doing a journal? I've seen several videos of that recipe. I'm still about a month away but I do have some Biochar I want to activate before mixing it up. At this point I'm going to be limited to 10gallon fab pots. Wish I had room for a 20gallon.
 
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