SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[Buds Buddy]

Is there any way that the float thingy can be modified to engage the refilling at a lower level, where the reservoir can be filled yet allowed to reach near empty before refilling? Or if keeping the reservoir full, is there an advantage to build in a larger air gap, after all if the reservoir is being topped up automatically then there is never any worry that the water will run out, and presumably the original air gap was simply to allow a minimum gap when full. It sounds like if the water level of the reservoir is being topped up constantly then you can choose the size of air gap that you feel is the most optimal. I wonder what size gap that would be?

That sounds logical. My internal res will be 12 qts. Was planning to make it hold 8 qts. That would leave about a 2" Air Gap.

 

[Fenderbender]

Your right to worry about it a using Roots Organics bottle nutrients and mine did the same also I don’t use a wetting agent to help keep their formula suspended so it all settles no matter how long I aerate it prior

aha aerate it prior that just gave me a good idea, I can just install one pump for circulation & drainage, but not the aeration pumps, I'll use one I can place in the nutes, make a hose come out the side, and then I can just drain the res with it into a bucket or if I stick the hose back into the SIP pipe, it will recirculate the whole res back into itself.
And just put that on a timer, it will be better than it is now and not keeping the nutes mixed.

Or I could just switch nutes, but if that requires a more regular feeding pattern & behaviour, yeah noo

anyhow that's all future.. kinda committed to the system as it's setup now.
Or should I start top dressing these nutes? and just provide water in the res?

 

[Buds Buddy]

aha aerate it prior that just gave me a good idea, I can just install one pump for circulation & drainage, but not the aeration pumps, I'll use one I can place in the nutes, make a hose come out the side, and then I can just drain the res with it into a bucket or if I stick the hose back into the SIP pipe, it will recirculate the whole res back into itself.
And just put that on a timer, it will be better than it is now and not keeping the nutes mixed.

Or I could just switch nutes, but if that requires a more regular feeding pattern & behaviour, yeah noo

anyhow that's all future.. kinda committed to the system as it's setup now.
Or should I start top dressing these nutes? and just provide water in the res?

I think a DRIP SYSTEM in a fabric pot would do much better if you have to Top Water at all. Hmmm, I might just do a comparison next grow with a drip system / fabric pot & SIP fed the way you're doing it using Geo Flora. I truly don't think there will be any difference at all. Need to test it to see though.

 

[013]

My personal feeling is that any nute you have to Top Dress with should not be used in a SIP. You are not going to water in the nutes with one watering after you Top Dress. It will take several waterings which defeats the purpose of the SIP in the first place. This is exactly why I quit using Geo Flora for my SIP grow. That & it stinks up the house.
I will use it in Fabric Pots this spring though.

Thanks for this Buds ^

my reasoning was….since my SIP bucket has much steeper moisture gradient and its damp just under top layer of soil…. any nutrients leached down from top watering the GF in… should hopefully encourage roots to follow nutrient trail upwards to knit up the area just under the GF top dress

ah well prolly bad code on my part, but thanks for your reply!

Buds got me thinking so just broke the crust of Geoflora to expose rice hulls underneath, the hulls are in fact damp but maybe I need to lightly water spray GF crust more frequently.…

theres still a dose of GF veg top dress but flipped her over to flower 2 weeks ago. I may break top dress crust then use shop vac to remove rest of veg nutes so I can switch to flower top dress nutes

If you zoom up white spots are clusters of soil mites. think its hypoapsis miles but they don’t attack the plant. Nuked them with SNS but they seem to die down after top dress dries out but these mites appear to repopulate after a top water session

Very impressed with SIP results so far, can’t wait til she sucks down res in a day, won’t be too much longer hopefully.

4BDF6E57-10FA-4159-8023-4980A0EA963D.jpeg

• 013
• Jan 7, 2023

 

[Emilya Green]

I'm having good luck with topdressing GeoFlora in a sip. I top water twice, about 2/3 of the way to runoff, during the two weeks feeding period, once when I apply it and then a week later. It does stink though.

 

[Azimuth]

Also what's this line "In a synthetic grow, especially in flower where the reservoir gets drained everyday, the FWFW seems to be quite effective. That's the strategy @Buds Buddy uses in his grow,"
What's the purpose of working with a res if it gets drained everyday.. kinda defeats the idea of self irrigation with a reservoir no?

When the plants get big they drink more than a gallon a day in the 5 gallon buckets, at least in Buds' grow. You could set up an external reservoir, or build larger reservoirs in something like a storage container like Emilya and ResDog did. But either way, you're able to push more water at them than normal which generally means bigger plants and bigger harvests.

As I'm still not sure that my system is free from jumping the gap, however I can see if it works well that the roots don't see the need to go digging through the pebbles more than a couple of cm's just to wick.. however I feel if they sense there's more goodness just a bit lower they will go for it.

If there are pebbles or some connecting media between the soil and the water, the roots will almost certainly populate that area.

But then at least I have some ability to interact... as now I can't do anything, clearing the res will be impossible once it's scrogged in... same for shaking up the res, I need to at least be able to be mix it up and clear it out. I want some switches I can flick.

I hear that. A true tinkered at heart.

Your right to worry about it a using Roots Organics bottle nutrients and mine did the same also I don’t use a wetting agent to help keep their formula suspended so it all settles no matter how long I aerate it prior

Have you thought about trying some aloe or yucca mixed in?

I feed every time. No plain water.

Hmmm. I remember a post where you laid our the FWFW. In it you stated that when you got to watering twice a day you did both as feed or both as water. Or at least recommended that would be the way to do it. Maybe that suggestion was for a different nute line than you use?

I'm actually more concerned with the SIP I'm building since it will have a Float controlled water level which means it will stay full at all times. Hope things don't get too wet.

Since you'll have a large external reservoir, why not set it low, like an inch or so? Other than affecting the moisture gradient, as long as there is  some water in the reservoir the plant has all it needs. Then it would also have max air available although I assume that, beyond a certain gap amount, more isn't necessarily better.

Is there any way that the float thingy can be modified to engage the refilling at a lower level, where the reservoir can be filled yet allowed to reach near empty before refilling?

Why not just keep it at a very low level constantly? With a large external reservoir, I don't see much need to have a high level of water in the SIP reservoir itself.

Hmmm, I might just do a comparison next grow with a drip system / fabric pot & SIP fed the way you're doing it using Geo Flora. I truly don't think there will be any difference at all. Need to test it to see though.

Geoflora grows would only be fed every two weeks and  lightly watered from the top for maybe a day or two to activate the nutes, but the rest of the time watered through the res. @Emilya Green feeds this way but she can weigh in with how it works for her (pretty well based on her photos).

And I regularly mist my mulch layer to keep it moist and keep the top feeder roots working.

 

[CaptainLucky]

When the plants get big they drink more than a gallon a day in the 5 gallon buckets, at least in Buds' grow. You could set up an external reservoir, or build larger reservoirs in something like a storage container like Emilya and ResDog did. But either way, you're able to push more water at them than normal which generally means bigger plants and bigger harvests.


If there are pebbles or some connecting media between the soil and the water, the roots will almost certainly populate that area.


I hear that. A true tinkered at heart.


Have you thought about trying some aloe or yucca mixed in?


Hmmm. I remember a post where you laid our the FWFW. In it you stated that when you got to watering twice a day you did both as feed or both as water. Or at least recommended that would be the way to do it. Maybe that suggestion was for a different nute line than you use?


Since you'll have a large external reservoir, why not set it low, like an inch or so? Other than affecting the moisture gradient, as long as there is  some water in the reservoir the plant has all it needs. Then it would also have max air available although I assume that, beyond a certain gap amount, more isn't necessarily better.


Why not just keep it at a very low level constantly? With a large external reservoir, I don't see much need to have a high level of water in the SIP reservoir itself.


Geoflora grows would only be fed every two weeks and  lightly watered from the top for maybe a day or two to activate the nutes, but the rest of the time watered through the res. @Emilya Green feeds this way but she can weigh in with how it works for her (pretty well based on her photos).

And I regularly mist my mulch layer to keep it moist and keep the top feeder roots working.

Hey Azi do you have a link for making a Sip with the 5 gl. buckets? Thanks CL

 

[Blumentalist]

according

Thanks, I use coco coir, perlite mix as my medium. I was sort of thinking to water using the reservoir and top feed the nutrients with little or no runoff. I really enjoy all of the input here on 420, a lot of great info

 

[Azimuth]

Hey Azi do you have a link for making a Sip with the 5 gl. buckets? Thanks CL

Page two of this thread.

Here it is for easy reference...

 

[lootznbootz]

Have you thought about trying some aloe or yucca mixed in?

I was going to see about getting some today. Going to my areas grow heaven of a shop today see what I can find

 

[Azimuth]

I was going to see about getting some today. Going to my areas grow heaven of a shop today see what I can find

And, while you're out, stop at a big box store and buy yourself an aloe plant. No sense in not having a ready supply already growing in your garden.

 

[Hash Hound]

I feed every time. No plain water.

@Buds Buddy Do you start using plain water to flush at any time? Or do you top down?
Or do you even flush?

 

[Buds Buddy]

When the plants get big they drink more than a gallon a day in the 5 gallon buckets, at least in Buds' grow.

My GG Auto I am currently filling all the way twice per day & 1/2 way once per day. So she's drinking about 2.5 gal. per day right now. Every now & then I might miss one feeding due to work schedule, so it's not really critical. I been finding I get about 3-4 oz. more when I fill the res twice per day in flower.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hmmm. I remember a post where you laid our the FWFW. In it you stated that when you got to watering twice a day you did both as feed or both as water. Or at least recommended that would be the way to do it. Maybe that suggestion was for a different nute line than you use?

I've never done FWFW with MC & that's all I've used for a few years now. I think you are talking about a comparison journal I did. One SIP was SoHum Super Soil & I fed Recharge one day & water the next.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Since you'll have a large external reservoir, why not set it low, like an inch or so? Other than affecting the moisture gradient, as long as there is  some water in the reservoir the plant has all it needs. Then it would also have max air available although I assume that, beyond a certain gap amount, more isn't necessarily better.

I've been trying to do everything pretty much to scale that matches my store bought 5 gal. SIP's with my own added touches. Lowering the float might be an option as long as the soil is still able to wick up the nutes. I'm not putting any side hole in the internal res. Store bought doesn't have them there. Only on Top, so I'm replicating that res. My 5 gal. SIP's have been awesome, so I want to stick with what they did, more or less.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Thanks, I use coco coir, perlite mix as my medium. I was sort of thinking to water using the reservoir and top feed the nutrients with little or no runoff. I really enjoy all of the input here on 420, a lot of great info

You never use plain water in Coco at all. Nutes every time.

 

[AspenCultivator]

I've been trying to do everything pretty much to scale that matches my store bought 5 gal. SIP's with my own added touches. Lowering the float might be an option as long as the soil is still able to wick up the nutes. I'm not putting any side hole in the internal res. Store bought doesn't have them there. Only on Top, so I'm replicating that res. My 5 gal. SIP's have been awesome, so I want to stick with what they did, more or less.

Store bought does have a water channel at the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket though. This way water can move through the bottom-most layer in the bucket on up.

With the overflow hole on the outer bucket when you fill the res that's where your water level is. The DIY versions having holes in the sides is probably inconsequential when you think about it...as long as you have some sort of holes or channel at the bottom of res. If you didn't have some sort of hole or channel at the very very bottom of the res you'll have an uneven moisture gradient in the buckets.

ETA: Along with that, if the res became 'sealed' against the outer bucket due to the weight of the soil and you didn't have holes in the sides or the bottom of the res, the water won't go anywhere.

 

[Buds Buddy]

@Buds Buddy Do you start using plain water to flush at any time? Or do you top down?
Or do you even flush?

When I start my seed I use plain water till it pops & then about a week of growth. Then I start feeding MC at 1 gr. per gal. once or twice, 2 gr. per gal once or twice, all the way to 4 gr. per gal. Then I just go by leaf color. Light Green=Stronger Nutes. Dark Green=Too Strong of Nutes.
So yes, to get the plant started I drop a seed in a Solo or 1 gal. Feed by the schedule above & wait till it get's 4 nodes.
Then into the SIP & Top Feed & then fill the res. Sometimes I top feed twice when I first upcan. Just depends on how dry the soil feels.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Store bought does have a water channel at the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket though. This way water can move through the bottom-most layer in the bucket on up.

With the overflow hole on the outer bucket when you fill the res that's where your water level is. The DIY versions having holes in the sides is probably inconsequential when you think about it...as long as you have some sort of holes or channel at the bottom of res. If you didn't have some sort of hole or channel at the very very bottom of the res you'll have an uneven moisture gradient in the buckets.

ETA: Along with that, if the res became 'sealed' against the outer bucket due to the weight of the soil and you didn't have holes in the sides or the bottom of the res, the water won't go anywhere.

By Channel, are you talking about the side of the res that's cut out & goes against the side of the bucket where the over flow hole is ?
Never mind... had to go look at mine. You mean those ridges all around the bottom ?

 

[CaptainLucky]

When I start my seed I use plain water till it pops & then about a week of growth. Then I start feeding MC at 1 gr. per gal. once or twice, 2 gr. per gal once or twice, all the way to 4 gr. per gal. Then I just go by leaf color. Light Green=Stronger Nutes. Dark Green=Too Strong of Nutes.
So yes, to get the plant started I drop a seed in a Solo or 1 gal. Feed by the schedule above & wait till it get's 4 nodes.
Then into the SIP & Top Feed & then fill the res. Sometimes I top feed twice when I first upcan. Just depends on how dry the soil feels.

Hey Buds you got the info on the rh monitor? Thanks . CL